Deborah Lipstadt: Whatever the reasons that people become deniers, when you look closely, they often have an agenda which they won't admit to. So denial is a pick to undo the lock to open the door to something else.
Deborah Lipstadt: You can have opinions about the Holocaust. You can argue about why it happened and how it happened. But what I won't do is meet with anyone, anyone, who says it didn't happen. Because the Holocaust happened. It happened. And that isn't opinion. That's fact. And I won't debate fact.
Anthony Julius: There's a reason why he's bringing the case in London... It's to his advantage. Over here in America, uh, if you're accused of defaming someone, then it's up to them to prove that what you said is untrue. In the UK, the reverse is true.
Deborah Lipstadt: Wait. I have to prove what I said was true?
Anthony Julius: Mmm. Correct.
Deborah Lipstadt: Yes, but I'm the innocent party. A man accuses you of something and it's your job to prove he's wrong? It's against natural justice. In the US there's a presumption of innocence.
Anthony Julius: Yeah, not in the UK. Tricky, isn't it?
Deborah Lipstadt: My mother named me Devorah. You know what it means... Leader. Defender of her people. Warrior. There was an expectation when I was a kid. My mother always said there was gonna be an event. That I was picked out. I was chosen... Well, here it is.
David Irving: Gonna be a fascinating encounter, don't you think?
Laura Tyler: Fascinating.
David Irving: You see, as I see it, it's academia versus the rest. Remember, the greatest historians have never been academics. We're outsiders. Cato, Thucydides, Gibbon, Churchill... I field a very strong team.
Anthony Julius: Richard will be your leading counsel. I've explained to Deborah the difference between barrister and solicitor.
Richard Rampton: Our legal system seems forbidding but it works, I think.
Deborah Lipstadt: If your legal system worked, I wouldn't be in this mess. I don't mind Dickensian, it's Kafkaesque I'm worried about.
Richard Rampton: Why has there not been a proper scientific study of this whole site? By reputable scientists? Fifty years since the fact? I mean, it's ridiculous. Where's the proof? Where's the evidence? I need to know that!
Anthony Julius: Bow.
Deborah Lipstadt: I'm American! Everything else but no bowing.
Deborah Lipstadt: Well, there are glasses here.
Richard Rampton: Ah, shame. I rather like plastic. Still, you can't have everything.
Richard Rampton: I like to treat myself, don't you? Why should all the bad people have all the good things in life?
Richard Rampton: They're strange things, consciences. Trouble is, what feels best isn't necessarily what works best. I mean, by all means, stand up, look the devil in the eye, tell him what you feel. Why not? It's very satisfying. See what happens. And risk losing. Not just for yourself. For the others. For everyone. Forever.
Deborah Lipstadt: Or?
Richard Rampton: Or... You know "or." Stay seated. Button your lip. Win. An act of self-denial.
Sir Charles Gray: My question is this, if somebody is anti-Semitic, anti-Semitic and extremist, he is perfectly capable of being honestly anti-Semitic, yes? He's holding those views and expressing those views because they are indeed his views?
Richard Rampton: Well, yes.
Sir Charles Gray: And so it seems to me, if it comes down to it, that the anti-Semitism is a completely separate allegation and has precious little bearing on your broader charge that he has manipulated the data?
Richard Rampton: No, no, my Lord. No. The whole endeavor of the defense has been to prove that the two are connected.
Sir Charles Gray: But he might believe what he is saying.
Richard Rampton: That is the point. That is why it is so important. My Lord, if we know that Mr. Irving is an anti-Semite, and if we know there is no historical justification for Holocaust denial, then surely it is no great stretch to see that the two are connected.
Deborah Lipstadt: Freedom of speech means you can say whatever you want. What you can't do is lie, and then expect not to be held accountable for it. Not all opinions are equal and some things happen, just like we say they do. Slavery happened. The Black Death happened. The Earth is round. The ice caps are melting and Elvis is not alive.
Journalist: Miss Lipstadt? You've conducted yourself with dignity throughout the trial.
Deborah Lipstadt: Thank you. Uh, but I know what that means. That's code in England for "I've shut up,"...
Anthony Julius: Deborah? He seems to be saying he won.
Deborah Lipstadt: I know. He used to be a Holocaust denier, and now he's a verdict denier.
--
+ Quotes on the IMDb
Deborah Lipstadt: You can have opinions about the Holocaust. You can argue about why it happened and how it happened. But what I won't do is meet with anyone, anyone, who says it didn't happen. Because the Holocaust happened. It happened. And that isn't opinion. That's fact. And I won't debate fact.
Anthony Julius: There's a reason why he's bringing the case in London... It's to his advantage. Over here in America, uh, if you're accused of defaming someone, then it's up to them to prove that what you said is untrue. In the UK, the reverse is true.
Deborah Lipstadt: Wait. I have to prove what I said was true?
Anthony Julius: Mmm. Correct.
Deborah Lipstadt: Yes, but I'm the innocent party. A man accuses you of something and it's your job to prove he's wrong? It's against natural justice. In the US there's a presumption of innocence.
Anthony Julius: Yeah, not in the UK. Tricky, isn't it?
Deborah Lipstadt: My mother named me Devorah. You know what it means... Leader. Defender of her people. Warrior. There was an expectation when I was a kid. My mother always said there was gonna be an event. That I was picked out. I was chosen... Well, here it is.
David Irving: Gonna be a fascinating encounter, don't you think?
Laura Tyler: Fascinating.
David Irving: You see, as I see it, it's academia versus the rest. Remember, the greatest historians have never been academics. We're outsiders. Cato, Thucydides, Gibbon, Churchill... I field a very strong team.
Anthony Julius: Richard will be your leading counsel. I've explained to Deborah the difference between barrister and solicitor.
Richard Rampton: Our legal system seems forbidding but it works, I think.
Deborah Lipstadt: If your legal system worked, I wouldn't be in this mess. I don't mind Dickensian, it's Kafkaesque I'm worried about.
Richard Rampton: Why has there not been a proper scientific study of this whole site? By reputable scientists? Fifty years since the fact? I mean, it's ridiculous. Where's the proof? Where's the evidence? I need to know that!
Anthony Julius: Bow.
Deborah Lipstadt: I'm American! Everything else but no bowing.
Deborah Lipstadt: Well, there are glasses here.
Richard Rampton: Ah, shame. I rather like plastic. Still, you can't have everything.
Richard Rampton: I like to treat myself, don't you? Why should all the bad people have all the good things in life?
Richard Rampton: They're strange things, consciences. Trouble is, what feels best isn't necessarily what works best. I mean, by all means, stand up, look the devil in the eye, tell him what you feel. Why not? It's very satisfying. See what happens. And risk losing. Not just for yourself. For the others. For everyone. Forever.
Deborah Lipstadt: Or?
Richard Rampton: Or... You know "or." Stay seated. Button your lip. Win. An act of self-denial.
Sir Charles Gray: My question is this, if somebody is anti-Semitic, anti-Semitic and extremist, he is perfectly capable of being honestly anti-Semitic, yes? He's holding those views and expressing those views because they are indeed his views?
Richard Rampton: Well, yes.
Sir Charles Gray: And so it seems to me, if it comes down to it, that the anti-Semitism is a completely separate allegation and has precious little bearing on your broader charge that he has manipulated the data?
Richard Rampton: No, no, my Lord. No. The whole endeavor of the defense has been to prove that the two are connected.
Sir Charles Gray: But he might believe what he is saying.
Richard Rampton: That is the point. That is why it is so important. My Lord, if we know that Mr. Irving is an anti-Semite, and if we know there is no historical justification for Holocaust denial, then surely it is no great stretch to see that the two are connected.
Deborah Lipstadt: Freedom of speech means you can say whatever you want. What you can't do is lie, and then expect not to be held accountable for it. Not all opinions are equal and some things happen, just like we say they do. Slavery happened. The Black Death happened. The Earth is round. The ice caps are melting and Elvis is not alive.
Journalist: Miss Lipstadt? You've conducted yourself with dignity throughout the trial.
Deborah Lipstadt: Thank you. Uh, but I know what that means. That's code in England for "I've shut up,"...
Anthony Julius: Deborah? He seems to be saying he won.
Deborah Lipstadt: I know. He used to be a Holocaust denier, and now he's a verdict denier.
--
+ Quotes on the IMDb
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